Monday, March 3, 2008
1 comment:
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Wanna said...
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If Hun Sen is still in power, border demarcation is to loss more Khmer land.
Well, Hun Sen is doing not bad job in stablizing Cambodia. However, Hun Sen's present is an encouragement of Vietnamese illegal immigrants to Cambodia; and Cambodia is facing rampant corruption. -
March 3, 2008 at 10:57 PM
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As a neutral observer what bothers me most is that all those allegations about the loss of territory today are made by people living overseas. They determine the loss of so much land by just looking at the border. Have they ever heard of surveys? Naturally, this Sean Pengse has an ax to grind so his views can hardly be deemed objective. He may have been a minister before 1975 so he should know that everything that happened after that wasn't always out of Cambodia's free will. The Khmer Rouge made incursions into Vietnamese and Thai territories themselves, eventually prompting the Vietnamese invasion. 1982 didn't really see an independent Cambodian government, did it? A country that loses a war, and Cambodia did just that against the Vietnamese, always loses something, a lot of times territory. Sean Pengse was a member of government that lost control of their own country and were ousted by Pol Pot. Sihanouk and later Lon Nol are to blame for the subsequent history of Cambodia. Maps are redrawn in history all the time. Sean Pengse lost all rights to speak for Cambodia since he belonged to a government that led Cambodia to its downfall.
These hun sen government brought shame to khmer, and khmer's history.
Khmer people, its not up to these khmer leader. ITs up to all of us and our voices, and Action will only bring justice and truth. To us, our history, and those suffering now in srokhmer and those who suffered during the khmer rouge error.
Let's rise up, for us, history, and future. Let educate each other, younger one and encourage each other.
have a good day everyone.
Now Cambodia territory is shrinking just that much. Hun Sen next term, Cambodia will be as big as the size of a pond in your backyard. Khmer people will look up and all they see are Vietnamese soldiers surrounding that pond and Khmers cannot go beyond it.
No, Cambodia is expanding.
11:16PM
Your comment is absurdly misled. Sean Pangse himself is not a dreamer when he talks about border issue. He has not allegedly been groundless.
His standard survey is the map recognized by international community during 1954.
And his standard survey is the true voice of Cambodian peoples along the border.
But what Hun Sen leadership and your cronies standard survey? As I can observe, Hun Sen leadership has not depended on any international recognition and people voice in the actual land, but he is good to justify for his illegal treaty with his Master during 1980, 83 and 89 etc
Khmer Rouge didn't invade Vietnam. Paranoia Khmer Rouge leaders were stimulated by VN to go into their land in order they can use it as their pretext to invade Cambodia.
KY
Well, if map is a solution to all border dispute, how come the US and most countries around the world still has border dispute?
The truth is the corrupted idiot (Sean Pengse) is just making trouble for everyone because he got nothing better to do. Furthermore, a border settlement with Vietnam mean the robe is cut between Ah Khmer-Yuon and Khmer, and they can't live with that reality. It is time for them to grow up and stop being like a baby. Khmer Leu, has been living with the Thai for centuries, and they don't mind it at all.
Stupid 2:10AM
For the interests of the nation, we should minimize the loss. We should not expect 100% to gain from neighboring countries while we are weaker than them.
In this momentum, we have huge potential to use our recognized map, actual voice of border-peoples, and Khmer Krom issues as our main means to negotiate with VN.
But what you have seen Hun Sen leadership has done; he has only tried to justify his wrong doing to become worse and worse.
We are losing and losing the land to VN because Hun Sen has used supplemental border treaties as his main pretext to negotiate.
Or we can say that under Hun Sen leadership, Cambodia is not independent at all, and the benefit of Cambodian nation has been slip away.
If you are Cambodian man, please use your brain!
KY
Forever as long as the Viet leaders still oppress 10 million Khmer Kampuchea Krom and the psychological of the Khmer people will be destroyed and the Khmer inferior complex will hang over Khmer people head forever because the Khmer Kampuchea Krom issue will always lingering and reminding to all Khmer people as a whole that their race is something to be subjugated and to be oppressed by the Viet! And the Viet will always continue to look down on the Khmer race and see themselves as the victor, the aggressor, and the oppressor and their role is legitimate by the law of nature that is to eliminate the Khmer race from the face of the Earth!
The Khmer border issue is intertwined with Khmer Krom people issue without a doubt and the two can't be separated from each other! I don't know how any Khmer leaders and Khmer people can choose to deal with the Viet leaders and pretend not to know that there are 10 million of their kind live next to them still oppress by the Viet government!
It is very hard to imagine that some Cambodian leaders can choose to deal with the Vietcong without taking their Khmer inferior complex into consideration as if something didn't happen between the Khmer and the Vietcong! But something did happen between the Khmer and the Viet and the Viet still oppress over 10 million Khmer Krom people in Southern Vietname! For any Khmer leaders or people to give in to the Viet oppressor’s demand and the Vietcong will continue to make more demands on the Khmer people because the Viet will always see the Khmer race as something to take advantage of and exploit and something to be subjugated and to be oppressed and to be wipe out from the face of the Earth!
Khmer people have only two choices in solving the border issue with the Viet leaders! One choice to verify the Cambodian boundary by enforcing the Paris Agreement! The second choices are to help the Khmer Krom people struggle for independent nation and it would be much easier to deal with the border issue because now Khmer can deal with Khmer or choose to become one or whatever like the West Germany and the East Germany reunification!
The Vietcong government is exploiting the Khmer inferior complex big time by pushing the Khmer leaders to accept all kind of agreements and treaties such as border treaties and economic agreement because the Vietcong leader felt that the Khmer leaders belong to a group of people who are weak and oppressed and the Khmer leaders are nothing more than little children which need constant supervision and to be led to do anything! So far the Viet leaders have been very successful in dealing with the Khmer leaders and if you have any doubt in what I am saying just take a close look of the current Cambodia government which was installed by the Vietcong government as a puppet government since 1979!
Please don’t tell me you don’t know what a puppet government is!
2:34AM
I understand your inferior thought then think about Khmer Krom. Of course, it is so easy. Khmer Krom Federation and Khmer Krom NGOs have their own clear vision to achieve their mission: to pertain their basic rights, to practice their culture freely, to have access to public services equally, to have been treated fairly in the society, ....etc
We don't see any agenda of KK to separate the land from VN. KK and their group are working correctly according to the international laws.
Cambodian national constitution has recognized Khmer Krom peoples by their Khmer race, not by their territory land; the constitution accelerates and supports the struggle for human rights.
And Cambodian constitution is using the map which is internationally recognized, not include Khmer Krom land.
So it is clear in both KK agenda and Cambodian national constitution.
But what we have seen Hun Sen leadership is undertaking is to manipulate and mix up the situation in Cambodia. His act shows us only the justification that he has to pay back debt or gratitude to his Master.
In case of Khmer Krom monks in Cambodia who has been disrobed and sent to be tried in VN and injailed till nowadays is the evidence of painful act that Khmers have never forgotten. Khmer should not oppress Khmers in order to save other alien nations.
KY
Lost forever is coming to Khmer! Who is cursing Khmer now?
May the ancient Khmer reborn and help us!
Khmer this day are so GREEDY. All of the leaders I see now, no matter Hun Sen and his parties, but SRP, HRP, NRP(Worse) and FUNCIPEC.
Only CHINA can revenge for Cambodia by biting VN land.
Even us who use this forum quite often still fighting each other.
Hope that ASEAN revolution will make it stable.
LOL, 3:17, don't you see the perpetual reincarnation of Khmer people? Look hard, my friend. We are the same people 1000 years ago, dude. Nothing has changed. We still love to fight each other and invite foreigners to help. Really, don't you see it?
Gentlemen
Trying to understand the in depth of this issue.
Would someone care to explain about the map, in particular the current map for demarcation of border.
By the way, would someone care to answer the below question.
[Before reaching the agreement on demarcation of borders with both Thailand and Vietnam]
Is there a map or proposal submit by RGC to the Senate or National Assembly for debate?
Thank you
Everything was done legally and democratically step-by-step and according to our law, Everyone debated, all votes was casted, all signatures from kings and queens was established. And the case was close long ago. Anything else I can help you with?
to 11.16pm,
"all accusations of border encroachments often made by people living overseas?" son chhay, mam sanando, sam rainsy, pang sokhoeun, choup kampuchea, rong chhun, chea mony...... and especially villagers living along the borders who are crying for help because their farms and ricefields have been taken by vietnam everyday. these are all people living inside cambodia. you said you are a neutral person but nothing is neutral in your views. anyway, this is not the point. the point is there are many border encroachments along the borders, viet and thai sides. do you agree that there is any border encroachments?
Dear 5:34 AM
Thank you for your explanation.
The reason for asking "Is there a map or proposal submit by RGC to the Senate or National Assembly for debate?" is because the reasons below:
[many of you out there might not agree to the view and opinion written in this particular column but it is OK because all of us is different in many way from point of view to thought]
1] It is easy for people of Cambodia if not all but a handful [majority of critics are supporters of opposition leader and opposition party itself], to blame the ruling party for many things, in particular this issue.
2] To supporters of opposition party, if 5:34AM comment is right then would you please ask yourself a question "Does this border agreement is in any way against or inferior to the democratic way?"
3] To opposition party, in particular the leader and members who are elected by people to represent them and theirs voice in NA and Senate:
a] be reminded that people have trust in your party and you that you will make the different.
b] Ask yourself a question: do we [opposition] perform effectively in NA?.
c] Though you are not junior member of the RGC who don't currently hold any position in ministries or having any rights to run those ministries but as the opposition party in NA you are part of the RGC as well simply you all are paid from the national budget [national coffer either derived from tax revenue or fund from donors] and and therefore shall take part or full responsibilities and blames for all right and wrong decisions made by the government - can't just point fingers to RGC alone.
Thank you
HUN SEN will sell his home if he has to... That is the kind he is; in fact he is a stray dog.
All those fucked-face people who lost all their conscience over power and money, I hope this border issue will awaken before your bedtime.
What is your point, idiot (8:27)? Everyone will sell their home if they have to.
Yes, 6:56, all maps was submitted in the debate before the voting took place. How can anyone think we debate such issue without maps. We are no gorilla, you know?
As for the vote, we did have some "neh", some "abstain", but a lot of "yeh", Thus, it was passed democratically and fully supported the his Majesty (Sihamony) himself.
Therefore, I reiterate that everything was legally done. And as usual, it is normal to have some people not satisfied with this outcome. I too not satisfied with some of the laws that we passed, but I never made any scene from it because it was passed according to our law. People will have to more mature about these thing. If they don't like the system, change it to something else, but don't act like babies here.
6:37, in order to be "Neutral", you must look at both sides (Cambodia and VN,) not just Cambodia. No international court will look on just Cambodia side, in case you don't know.
In any case, all court will always urged all sides to settle it because the court never like to render a verdict. That is because the winner will be happy, the loser will be sad and lost money, and the court get caught in between. Accordingly, I am sure that the international court would be happy for all of us that we managed to settle this among ourself. I guarantee it.
Dear 9:26
Thank you for your explanation and comment.
It is inevitable for people to be unhappy, not satisfy and say and express their opinion [again everybody is different].
My view here is very simply.
Ruling party, junior partner in government and opposition alike are having duties, responsibilities and obligations for people of Cambodia due to the fact that everybody is in the government - comprising of ruling party, junior partner and opposition party seating in National Assembly and in Senate [If people out there think that opposition party is not part of the government then shall think twice]; therefore opposition party, its members and supporters shall not in any circumstances keep attacking the government, but rather asking opposition party, parliamentarian/law makers from opposition party to look into their performance.
Thank you
Yes, but most of these oppositions are immature and had no experiences in running a country. They are still on a long learning curve, and they are not gaining much experiences with lip services and from constantly trying to screwed the government instead of working with the government to effectively promote businesses for the people in Cambodia. They have been using people suffering to gain their fame. And had they done what they supposed to do, we will be 30-40% better economically because right now only about 50-60% of the government is working for the people and the country.
I don't know about you, mate (10:36), but to me, this is blatantly robing the tax payer money. What is a shame?
Oh well! When AH HUN SEN Vietcong slave was installed by the Vietcong as the leader of Cambodian people at the age of 34 years and no Cambodian people said that AH HUN SEN Vietcong slave is immature and inexperience!
Some of these same stupid Cambodian people forgot that it was because of AH HUN SEN Vietcong slave immature and inexperience that is why Cambodian people inherited many of these fucken problems from the Vietcong and the Thaicong!
Getting a PhD without going to school is very and mature and experience? This is just another Vietcong theory and logic! Ahahahhahahahhahahah!
No, I said it time and time again. It is just that your didn't hear me.
No one had experience in running the country. PM for instance have made some mistakes and learn from it. He have changed a lot since he was elected as PM. The one think I noticed the most is his control of his short temper, LOL. He was a military commander, and I don't know any Khmer commander without short temper. He used to lashed at almost everyone, but now here rarely does that. He's like a different person now, but not without breaking point.
11:51AM
No kidding Hun Sen has learned nothing from the beginning to now. His continual success is not from Hun Sen's ability, but from a very well-organized advisers, you should ask who they are? Not those 1000 advisers (cronies) who are continuing to exploit the national budget and assents. They are well-trained from Hanoi...go and check in cabinet as well as in ministry of interior.
PM Hun Sen's words are incendiary. He needs more education in public speech. Though peoples like to listen his speech, but it doesn't mean his speech is productive and sustainable to Cambodia future politics.
KY